as i said, unions built the middle class of america. and if i had to choose between a ceo making lots of money and the money getting spread around in a free market system, i'll take the one getting spread around. anti-union, is somebody anti-union for saying harold ford, i'll ask you, i should be able to work where i want to work and pay union dues if i want to pay union dues. is that a demonstrably anti-union position or supporting freedom? >> i think it's supporting freedom. here's another side. unions have played a big role of people having their rights protected, as you well know, to ensure that safety standards are -- >> okay, but that's not answering my question, harold. >> union dues are used for that purpose also. >> but you can't take that money from me if i don't want to give it to you. >> this is all about -- but this is about political purposes. political purposes. so there's a broad set of reasons that these dollars are used for. >> you're still taking it from my pocket and i don't want to give it. >> we're making your work